Small Business Small Talk powered by Hibu
Small Business Small Talk powered by Hibu
COVID-19 Response Roundtable: What to do today, preparing for tomorrow
Chad and Ian sit down (virtually) with a roundtable of digital marketing experts with a range of experience and expertise. This is solid information for small business owners -- what are the challenges most local businesses are facing, what steps are generating the best results, and what should businesses be doing now to prepare for the new normal that's coming -- all based on information we're seeing from the field, across the country, right now.
This special episode of Small Business Small Talk was recorded while we practice social distancing. Please forgive any drop in audio quality and join us in staying safe.
Chad :Hi, my name is Chad David, and I'm here with my co host, Ian messenger, and you're listening to Small Business Small Talk powered by Hibu. Today, we're going to be doing something a little different. We've gathered together a roundtable of experts from all across Hibu to try to present a wide range of expertise and experience. And what we really want to do, let's talk about what your small business be doing now as we deal with the ongoing crisis, and how you should be planning and preparing for when we all inevitably get back to the new normal. So, to start off, I just like to go around our virtual room here and have you all Introduce yourself. Let our listeners know who you are and what you do here at Hibu.
Dana :All right, thanks, Chad. My name is Dana Cutler. I am the a VP of Go-to-Market. I work very closely With our sales team and our other departments throughout our organization to take products to market to help small businesses.
RC :Great. Thanks, Dana. My name is RC Thompson. I'm the Director of Product Management here at Hibu. on a day to day basis, I work with other members of the product team and others in the business to help design and launch new products to help small businesses.
Bill :Thanks for having me, Chad. My name is Bill McKenzie. I'm the VP of sales enablement here at Hibu and I focus on productivity, specifically sales productivity, driving that through systems tools, and process.
Russ :And my name is Russ Michels, Senior VP of Sales and I also am working with the sales training department. My role is to help our sales associates do the best job at partnering with and helping the small businesses across the country to promote themselves and to gain strength through the internet and digital advertising.
Chad :Thank you all, again for joining us. We know you're all very busy. And so I'm just gonna sort of dive right in, as we look around where we're a few weeks into this thing now. And for every small business that's out there, you know, they, each one of them sort of like needs that unique strategy to address sort of, like, their own concerns, their own needs and the needs of their their unique customer base and stuff. But sort of like taking a step back and looking in a more general sense. Russ, I'm gonna ask you, you know, as we're talking with our clients, I mean, what are we seeing right now? What are we hearing from the small business owners that were that we're reaching out to?
Russ :Well, we really have, you know, depending on what state you're in, there really is kind of two groups of people that we're working with. And you have the businesses who have the ability to operate today, you know, either in a full sense or in a partial sense, and then we have customers that are just not able to yet operate. So, you know, looking at each group, if you're not able to operate yet, this is certainly an important time to get ready. Right, and we see clients that we see some clients that are developing a very sophisticated strategy. And they're using this time to plan. They're using this time to train and prepare. But most importantly, they're also softening the market for the return. Right? They're getting ready, they're making sure that they're keeping their business top of mind. They're fighting to make sure that they are one of the dominant players that can be seen or found, as people are homebound and trying to figure out what they're going to do with their own time, right and preparing their, you know, return to improving my house projects, and all the things I think that they need to do now that they've been staring at their house from every angle for the last four weeks. And then you have the second group, which is businesses that have been able to operate. And in this, we see that there's a, you know, there's a group of people that have kind of retracted, and they're just going to wait and see. And then there's another group that's, you know, taking more of a proactive approach. They're out in the market, although most all of them are offering In some limited fashion, they are learning about what it is to operate in today's marketplace, and it is not going to be a flash cut end, right? So they're they're figuring out the things that are really important to figure out how many of your employees will return back to work. And, you know, what do they feel safe about doing? They're figuring out how to make the right safety precautions when carrying out the jobs that they do with whether they go to a homeowners, you know, house to perform a job or somebody might be doing a virtual meeting, right. How do you conduct that? How does it work? What are the the ups and downs and we see that these businesses that are taken, I think, that proactive approach where, you know, for the most part, they're going to be really benefitting themselves. Every day that we continue to climb out of this mess because they're figuring out all the lessons that we will all need to figure out. They're just figuring them out a little sooner. So they're getting those solutions figured out. And they're able to ramp up and at same time capture a little bit more market share.
Chad :talking to these two different groups like even though they're sort of like in different places right now. I mean, both of them have essentially the same goal, right? Everybody is just trying to position themselves in the best way possible to to climb out of this as fast as as fast as they can. Once you know that the coast is clear.
Russ :there'll be a lot of businesses that are going to, you know, this is really going to affect them. Right, they might not have entered into this COVID period in the strongest position. They might not have had enough savings, they might not have had enough, you know, accumulated business or reoccurring invoices, and they're having a really tough time. We see businesses that are a little more seasoned. Maybe they've been through recession before they've been through a hurricane before tornadoes, maybe all the above. those businesses tend to understand that this is a big awakening, right? This is a time for them to capture additional market share and be proactive right go and maybe a little more Be a little more visible, and be a little hungrier to get leads, because there could be less, but there'll be many other businesses that are going to fully retract. And they're going to give them an opportunity to come in and take their customer base or invade their geography, because the local business just isn't out there and being seen, they're not fighting for their market, somebody else is going to be more proactive and use this opportunity to enter into the market, swipe away some customers, and you know, their footprint. So as they come out the other side, they could very well come out stronger and bigger and harder to compete with
Dana :Chad, another thing that we've seen quite a bit with businesses across the country, and I think what Russ said is perfect, it depends on where you're located, depending on how much change you need to make, but we are seeing a lot of SMBs really change up their product offerings, what they're doing, how they're doing it. And it's been kind of interesting to watch how people are resilient and how they're bouncing back and really Acting different ways to make sure that they are in that kind of survival mode and that, you know, they're not hitting those kind of road bumps. So that's been a great thing to see across the country.
Russ :Right that there's still there's still do an auto repair but they're now picking up the car dropping off the car, no human interaction whatsoever. minor adjustment but it's able to keep those Bay's going and maybe 75%. They'd be sitting empty if they relied on people just driving in and not being comfortable interacting with people.
Bill :I agree Ross and and, you know, I was going to add to what you were saying and just reinforce, we've seen this right, every recession that most of us have been in this business a very long time. And we've seen it every recession, that there's people that use it as an opportunity. And they go and they they work really hard at it and they gain market share and they do it without a sense of fear. And then there's others that retract, and it really hurts them and they may never recover in the same way from that and you know, the reps They are in an awkward position because they want to try to tell that story to people, but it can come across as self serving. Right. And so, you know, I think the, you know, people are listening to this today, I think, you know, take it from people that aren't directly trying to sell you something today that, you know, this is an opportunity. And, you know, being aggressive can certainly help you over the long term. And that happens not just on the local level, but nationally as well. And you've seen huge changes in the national landscape based on how people responded to a recession. And although this isn't a recession, it sort of has that feel as people are trying to retract.
Chad :Just to just to pivot a little bit, you know, as we're talking about what we're seeing from our customers, I mean, RC I'm gonna ask you, you know, we also getting a lot of data about, you know, different markets and the market in general. So what trends are we seeing from our clients, customers like the consumers out there, you know, we we know that people are you know, since they're staying home, they're they're spending some more time online. But you know, how is that? What does that translating to and as far as digital marketing is concerned?
RC :Sure, thanks, Chad. I think what I'll do is I'll kind of build on what Russ was saying earlier is, everyone's at home, there's the internet traffic as a whole is up. There's a lot more searching going on for all kinds of things, whether they'd be fun videos, ways to teach your kids or things that you're looking for on a local level from a business perspective. And what we've seen is there's in addition to the additional traffic, a lot of the searches right now are focused on businesses that are going out there and saying, Yes, I'm open. Yes, I'm available. I have contactless payments. I have the ability to do a virtual meeting. And so not only is the search traffic up because everyone now is still thinking about, you know, the the projects they wanted to do previously, whether it be home improvement, or I have been wanting to do some research on a new car, I have been wanting to Xyz. There's lots of different things out there that people have a little bit more time to do. Because they're not going everywhere. Everyone's staying at home as they should. And we're seeing that traffic increase. But we're also seeing that they're putting qualifiers on those searches, looking for are they available? Are they open, like I mentioned. And so I think that's something that businesses should be aware of is for those listening today that you need to make sure you get the word out there. You need to make sure that you're making those changes is residential as well. Can you still purchase a car and actually purchase it 100% online and then just go pick it up and have all the paperwork completed? Or can you do a an appointment with a painter to paint the exterior of your house, which is still something that can happen in most areas, you might be able to search for someone that says specializing in exterior painting in a contract Plus payment and COVID safe environment. So those are the things that consumers are really looking for. And we've seen some really good indicators from our advertisers and our our clients that are really out there, putting that message out so that they can, they can be found and they're seeing some some good results from that.
Announcer :You're listening to a special episode of small business small talk, and Hibu. We're committed to helping small businesses today during these challenging times. And tomorrow, when we all get back to business as usual. For more information, visit us@hibu.com. H-I-B-U. Hibu.com.
Chad :Okay, we're back and we're talking with a panel of experts from Hibu what we think small businesses should be considering yesterday, today and tomorrow as they tackle crisis related challenge.
Dana :Just talking about some trends and stats I mean for, for business businesses to understand not only like our C said, we are we are seeing a really, you know fast increase in screen time and people getting online. One of the things that we've noticed and when we're talking to businesses, we're constantly talking about getting them the best bang for their buck making sure that their message is being heard they're bringing in leads to their business, and they're doing it in the most cost effective way that they possibly can. Some of the trends that we've seen recently are, you know, around our cost per click of advertising or the cost per call when we are generating those leads, or social campaigns or search campaigns, they have been going down week after week, those cost per call. So essentially that cost per lead is going down. Some of it's because people have pulled out and and now the people that have stayed the course are able to really kind of take advantage of that of maybe some of their competitors slowing down. So I think this is the perfect time with those trends to show why you know, people should get back in the game or why they should have never left. Because right now you're going to get the biggest bang for your buck in your marketing.
Chad :A point that that keeps getting brought up and I think bears repeating is that even though times can see seemed pretty, sort of dire and bleak right now that, you know, if you if you look a little bit deeper, and you can see that there's actually there's an opportunity here, right, there's there's opportunity out there. And Bill, I know you mentioned before, like how similar this is to two other recessions that we've seen where it's like, you know, there's a group of people who have sort of, like, pulled back and, you know, in their reaction to what's going on, they've throttled down, they pull back, they've held back on, on what they're doing, and in doing so, they end up missing out on the on the opportunity and, you know, I would even say there's even an added layer to that on top in this case. Just because in a lot of those prior recessions like the consumers and the people out there, they couldn't, right, they couldn't spend, they didn't have to spend but a lot of the people now, you know, customers and stuff, they, they can't, even though they're willing to I mean, you know, I know I've needed a haircut as badly as I've ever needed one in my entire life, but I can't go out there and and go get it right now. But once that's available, I'm going to be eager to go out and spend and, you know, for for different products and different services. I mean, as long as a business can position themselves to be in front of their customers and stay top of mind, like we've been talking about, then you're putting yourself in a huge position to take advantage and to really reap the benefits of, you know, staying true to the course and just holding the line for a bit.
Bill :It's a great point, Chad, I think you're right, there'll be some pent up demand out there. Right that is out there. And the best thing you can do right now in is planning for the recovery. And that may not sound like the most important thing, right? Because you're thinking I got to deal with today I got to get, you know, my mind around what I need to do today. And of course you need to do that. But you also have to find that time to sort of plan for the recovery and figure out what is it that you're going to do. I've been dabbling on the side a little bit with stoic philosophy and one of the things they talk about is the obstacle is the way right, and this is a huge obstacle, but for a lot of businesses this obstacle is what can be the pivot or the change that defines them going forward. I heard a great story the other day about Lew Alcindor you know, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and he's like the all-time scoring you know, most sports guys all time score in the NBA, right and when he was in college, the NCAAA, you know, said you can't slam dunk the ball right? And he's a huge call guy that was his bread and butter and what do you what he wound up having to do was develop a new shot with his coach. He came up with a new shot called the Skyhook, where you know it... he changed the way he performed. And by doing that, he created a shot that people said was unblockable and went on to, you know, win all sorts of NCAA championships and won tons of championships in the NBA. And so one thing we've challenged the sales reps to do is, you know, find your Skyhook. And I think for the small business owner, it's the same thing, right? Find your Skyhook, find the thing that's going to change these different pivots, right that people are doing. We mentioned that, you know, the automobile, maybe that's the way that going forward, you do some of your business right now you're forced to, but in the future, that might be the way that you do a portion of your business that defined you changes you makes you better, right. So, how can we come out of this, you know, and leverage this as an opportunity, you know, take this obstacle and make it the way that we become even more more successful and get to a point where we really want to be and what is our Skyhook? What is the thing that we're going to take out of this, this time this downtime, and use it to pivot and change and grow our business and make us that much better and stronger as a business.
Ian :And that is kind of an interesting trend you're seeing is, you know, things that are very much a, you know, necessity being the mother of invention kind of moment where you're seeing small businesses and even larger businesses. I mean, Heck, even Hibu, you know, we're all we're all working from home. Now, that's, you know, kind of novel for most of our business. But you're seeing these businesses really, really adapt quickly and come up with some some novel approaches. And not only do you admire in the moment, but suddenly you're thinking, well, gosh, why didn't they do this before? And will they keep doing this? This is great. This is really convenient for me as a as a consumer, so it is a kind of an interesting moment to observe, even in the middle of all the uncertainty going on.
Chad :Dana, I wanted to ask you, you know, in, in previous podcasts, we sort of touched on what we felt like small business owners should be doing right now. But that was, you know, arguably a few weeks ago. So that being said, you know, looking at the now the now now, sort of what are what are what would you say small business owners should be should be doing currently?
Dana :So I think it's really being open minded. I've talked with a lot of just local businesses that I'm still trying, you know, doing business with, whether it's the curbside service or whatever way, you know, they're, they're managing through this. I think everybody's looking for that opportunity we've talked about and you just said, Chad, like opportunity seems to be kind of that core, you know, thing that we keep, we keep saying throughout this and the core topic here and I think looking for that opportunity, and making sure they're doing it now like getting a plan in place, making sure that they they know how can they make their business better tomorrow. But you have to have that plan first. So, you know, if there's something that maybe they did, you know, they change with the products or the services or how they provide those, you know, whether it is curbside service or takeout or, you know, all the different things that the virtual appointments, everything that we've talked about today, whether, you know, how will they do that when we come out of this when everybody says, Okay, we're back to work, we're back to school or back to play everything else? How are they going to change their business? I think that there's a lot of businesses out there, they have learned some things so they can take them to the next level. And they've learned that over the over time. So I think for all, you know, small, medium sized businesses, businesses of all sizes, really, for them to just kind of take a look at like, wow, what did we do that we probably would have never done had we not entered into this state that we're doing that is really good and we should be doing Doing it ongoing, I think that they need to sit and think and have a plan and analyze what they've done. And you know, we talk about it a lot internally, like our Salesforce, you have different kind of, like, you know, kind of tiers where they fall on a report and getting, you know, one layer up always getting a little bit better. And I think taking that kind of same philosophy and going into a business, how can I be better than I was, even before this started and putting that plan together in place, and, you know, getting their name and their brand back out there if they slowed down? Or, you know, doing something to just continually take it the next step?
RC :Absolutely, Dana, I agree. And I think another thing I would add is, when we brought this up earlier is how can businesses, you know, look to reinvent themselves a little bit or just change how they approach it. So one example would be, you can look at an orthodontist and say, well, like all of the orthodontist work that I would do. would be in the office. And right now they're actually pivoting and doing virtual appointments online. And they have some of their staff taking really funny pictures about how you would put a phone up to your mouth to show the orthodontist what is, you know, what, what are your teeth look like? How would you approach this treatment plan. And that's allowed them to stay open, have their staff be with them, and set up treatment for the future, as well as some things they can do right away, whether that's adjustments to an existing plan, or things of that nature. So that's something that they have never done before. It's never something they would have approached. But this is something they're doing now that it's allowing them to stay open and allowing them to help their customers in these times.
Dana :Yeah, one thing to add on that, Chad, real quick because I you know, RC made a comment that made me think about saying, you know some of my personal stories... it's like, think as a consumer, all of our all business owners are you know, everybody that works at a business or also a consumer, think about the things that you have liked during this, like y ou know I, we have a pool, I got a pool ... the water sampled after the pool was open. I drive up, they come out to me they do it the service level has been tremendous. I know it's not also today sustainable. But there are things that I think people are like, you know, we got away from... everybody's moving so fast. And this made everybody slow down and think about their customers. It made us slow down, think about our customers. And I think that that's a really important thing for businesses to think about right now. As we start to think about, you know, the future and we're when we get out of this.
Bill :Dana, I think you're exactly right. And, and I would say it's both sides, right. So you're talking about the things that you like as a consumer and RC and your example about the orthodontist that's incredibly efficient. Right. So what is on a go forward basis, they don't always have to bring somebody into the office for an evaluation. Right now I can have someone else, too, taking those pictures as an orthodontist, and be more efficient while I'm working on somebody else's physical braces that need to be worked on, I can be having someone else taking those pictures, putting together a treatment plan and creating a tremendous efficiency for me, that also the consumer may love right? And and I can probably do it at a lower cost, etc. So there's, there's opportunities on both sides of the story. And I couldn't agree with you more. It's been great as a consumer in a lot of cases. And I think it'll be an opportunity for a lot of businesses to be that much more efficient. And just like you were saying about, Ian... was saying about working from home. You know, I think more and more businesses will realize that some of the benefits of that and how to incorporate that into their normal paradigm.
Announcer :You're listening to a special episode of small business small talk, and hi boo. We're coming in helping small businesses today during these challenging times, and tomorrow, when we all get back to business as usual, for more information, visit us at Hibu.com. H-I-B-U. Hibu.com.com.
Chad :And we are back with our group of experts for a special roundtable discussing what small businesses need to be doing to address today's obstacles and how they can prepare for tomorrow's new normal. What I'm hearing here is that as we look forward, the what we are calling quote unquote, like the new normal, will probably be end up being a combination of our like, you know, our pre COVID lives and stuff that we've adopted to pivot today. You know, you know, that new customer focus, like you said, we've grown accustomed to some of those things and aren't necessarily eager to see them go away once everything sort of clears up for a bit. So Bill, I'm going to ask you, you know how as business owners are looking to, you know, towards the future and planning for for their next steps, I mean, what can we what can we offer as far as like advice as to how they can make the best take advantage of what we anticipate to be the new the new normal?
Bill :Chad, I think we really covered it, you know, like I said, you know, develop your your Skyhook, right, you know, what can you do, you know, in addition to really planning for the recovery, you know, what, what is your Skyhook? What is your thing like the orthodontist example that our see gave, right, or the auto example that Russ gave? How can you find your way forward to develop something that's new? And then the only other thing I would add, you know, in addition to the, you know, some of the practical stuff is this, you know, some of this is a mental game, right? and small business owners are people and they've got good days and bad days. Everybody does, right, you know, you think about, there's, there's always the same, right? We can't choose what happens to us, but we can choose how we react to it. I don't think that if there's ever been a time where that's been more acute than it is right now, you can literally see it every single day in the way that people are handling that particular day or that event or letting this thing get to them, you can see when that happens to people. And so certainly, I think there's also an element of, you know, just working through you know, not letting it get you down, right because this is... this is difficult the obstacle, you know, is real and it's hard and, you know, you're gonna have to choose how you how you handle that. And if you can choose the right path and understand it, you know, there could be an opportunity here and you stay aggressive like we've talked about, I think there's there's a chance to come out of this stronger and better than you went in it.
RC :Yeah, well, I would, I would agree. And I would add on to that, that, you know, as we keep we talked about the excitement of coming out of this and Chad being able to go get his haircut, you know, there's going to be things that happen here that... it's not just an "on" switch, you know, it's going to take time and there's going to be several people who are going to be a little more cautious, and they're still going to want and expect to do transactions online and to continue to have contactless contactless payments and pickups curbside pickups. And so, I think for businesses, it's not just a matter of putting a patch on something for right now, what they're doing now will stay and that is something that is going to continue, consumers are going to expect this type of behavior in this type... these types of transactions going forward. And their business might actually come out more efficient as we said, you know, if we're able to do those pictures for the orthodontist, or actually instead of having a painter drive all the way up to your house, but can now do estimates based on a FaceTime call ... saying, here's the room or here's my house, can you send me an estimate -- he's saving time and efficiency for his business to be able to do that online versus having to come in and shake someone's hand and walk through their house, you know, that that might take a little longer to come back. And so being able to be not only prep for that now, but have that in place and be able to grow that as we move forward, is going to be a big advantage for businesses.
Russ :And if I could add one piece to this, right, I think the one of the best things that a business can do for today, as well as tomorrow... is to just ACT, right? Move yourself to action -- that the faster we get involved in doing things, the quicker right, certainly with some degree of caution, right. We're just not, you know, blindly jumping in. Having a decent plan and then getting started with the plan. One of my mentors many years ago told me that "Getting started is half done" – it always stuck with me, because often it's just a matter of quit trying to line everything up perfect. Get a decent plan, get it to be 80% and then get on with it. Right? Because you started with will not be the plan you end with, you're gonna change it tons of times, right? You'll constantly adjust. You'll constantly have to adapt. And, being an army guy, I hate to give the Marines any credit, but they do have a pretty good slogan – "Improvise. Adapt. And overcome." Right. And that's what's happening in the business community today is the world is never going to be the same as it was. I don't think too many businesses return to operate the same way that they did before. All this changed, right? There will be adaptations as we've said here, the last 5-10 minutes. There's really good ones that things will change for the better. And it's super important that the sooner we get in and figure out what works for us, right as our supply chain does. In the way we service our customers different can we service them better? Right? I my pizza parlor wasn't delivering, you know, they weren't operational at the beginning of COVID. And another one was, so my favorite pizza on the planet, I couldn't get it. And I wanted to local businesses. So I switched that adapting, right? The sooner we get involved in action, the sooner we can realize what is the market one, what's working, what's not working, we can make those changes is every day we're going to learn little things. And the closer you are to the front of the curve, the better off you are going to be. People that are most proactive, are getting value, they're getting value exposure value leads, value opportunities, and those will turn into much bigger returns as time goes on, because they're going to have themselves really situated well and strongly in the markets that they're serving in the clients that they're they built up.
Chad :Russ, you made a lot of really good points – one of the ones that sort of like sort of bringing out in my head and sticking with me is the notion of like, you know, before all of this, you know, brands and businesses have worked up to build that, that loyalty the same way that your that your favorite pizza shop had through, like, you know, the quality of their service and, and other things, but what this entire crisis is sort of done is in some ways, wipe that slate clean, and that now the most important things for a lot of people is that the ease of use and how you know, comfortable it is for them, for them to interact with that business. So, you know, again, just bring it right back to that opportunities. So like, even if you're in a market where before you didn't have necessarily the largest sort of like following or brand loyalty, you can you can use this as an opportunity to step up and step into a space that's left vacant by by somebody else who you know, isn't ahead of the curve, or is or someone who is worth waiting to enact a plan that's perfect. Meanwhile, another businesses like let's let's get to it, and we'll figure it out as we go along. All right, before we wrap things up, does anyone have anything else they'd like to add?
Russ :Maybe just one one more thought, right that there's many businesses that we're dealing with today have taken advantage of some of the, you know, small business loans, some of the grants, some of the things that are helping businesses make it through this time, perhaps they're still in a, you know, forced closure state or in a in a field where they just can't operate. There are a good number of businesses that are using the help available to them, to get through this to maintain their workforce, to maintain paychecks to keep those communities running, by doing it as doing running their businesses close to what they were able to before, with or without the ability to, you know, operate fully. And yet, there's still plenty of businesses that haven't looked at or have not yet realized what is available to them. And I think it's you know, that there can't be too many things. More important on any given day than to go see what's available. Right? Spend some time get online, go look at the Small Business Association website, go read into what what grants are available, what you know what loans are available, some of them, you can be forgiven for the assistance that you're getting. Right. There's so much emphasis on keeping people working, keeping their employees working. And absolutely, it's critical to faster and fuller recovery of all of our communities, to be keeping as many people fully working unemployed as possible. So I would, you know, just ask people stop the recording now, go look and see what's available for you. And are you taking advantage of it? Are you you know, gonna do everything you can to get through this fully and successfully and not miss any of those opportunities.
Chad :And that's a really good point and... shameless plug... I mean, on blog.Hibu.com we have posts up, sort of outlining, you know, Small Business Administration, Facebook, all the different places where you can go to, to find the resources that you need to, to help yourself, your business and your employees. And on Hibu.com, we have a banner up there that talks about... that leads to a page that is just filled with resources that small businesses can use to, you know, really help themselves out at this time. So no, excellent point. All right. Um, I guess I'd like to thank everybody here on the call for joining us today. This was an amazing conversation. I think there were some really good points that we put out there, and hopefully, our listeners find it useful. So again, you know, Dana, Bill, RC, Russ, thank you so much for joining us today.
RC :Thank you
Russ :Thanks for having me. And thanks for sharing some great information.
Chad :Of course, and I want to thank all of you listening to this episode of Small Business Small Talk powered by Hibu. If you liked what you heard, please be sure to subscribe and if you can leave us a review. It really helps out the show. Of course. We hope all of you your family, your friends all stay safe and stay healthy. Small Business Small Talk... out!
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